In our country, Yegor Kuzmich Ligachev is a well-known person. After graduating from the Moscow Aviation Institute, he worked at the largest aircraft factory in Novosibirsk, was at party work, and secretary of the Novosibirsk Regional Committee. From 1965 to 1983 - the first secretary of the Tomsk regional committee of the CPSU, then Yuri Andropov invited him to the CPSU Central Committee, where Ligachev headed the department of organizational and party work, then was the secretary of the Central Committee, a member of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee. In 2000, the Siberians elected him a deputy of the State Duma of Russia. Honorary citizen of the Tomsk region. As Tomsk Governor Sergey Zhvachkin assessed, Yegor Kuzmich “is not just our former leader, but our legend. The region has never known such a development as in Ligachev’s times.”

During the failed perestroika, Yegor Ligachev sharply parted ways with Mikhail Gorbachev, and at the 19th All-Union Party Conference he publicly said to Boris Yeltsin from the rostrum: "No, Boris, you are wrong."

Egor Kuzmich is 94 years old, but he gladly agreed to answer the questions of Tomsk News journalists about how the famous political leader outside of politics.

It is a pity that the head is spinning not from success

- How do you feel, Yegor Kuzmich?

- According to age. Feeling generally good. Except that the headaches are disturbing, the weather influences. I have already been asked this question at a meeting of the Tomsk community in Moscow, I escaped with a joke: there are no successes, but there is dizziness. Seriously speaking, three years ago, at the Academician Chazov Cardiology Center, I underwent a complex operation: a valve was replaced on the aorta of the heart and a bypass was placed on the coronary artery. Imagine, at my age, and such an invasion of the body! On the eve of the operation, I thought a lot, but still agreed. It was a risk both on my part and on the part of the medical institution. The fact that the operation was performed by the famous cardiac surgeon Academician Renat Akchurin gave me confidence. However, everything went well, the body survived, which surprised even the doctors, who saw everything in their hectic work.

After the operation, any person has a special psychological state. Yes, my body survived, I sorted through my life in my memory, looking for confirmation of the successful outcome of the operation, and yet I settled on a lifestyle. And then in my thoughts I had and now I can definitely say: my lifestyle was healthy, correct. And these are not some general, empty words, everything is very specific. I have always found satisfaction in work, in communication with people. There was a lot of work, moreover, difficult - for 12-14 hours, often without days off. But it's a burden in Siberia, in Moscow - not a single day.

I will add to this such an ordinary, worldly thing - I didn’t drink, I didn’t smoke. And I don’t understand why people smoke, are addicted to drinking? Habits? Bad habits, harmful. I was constantly attracted by the movement, I liked to walk very much. When it was possible to refuse the car, the elevator - refused. I remember that in Tomsk there were elevators in the regional committee building, but I usually went up to the fourth floor to my office on foot. I remember our young city of oil workers Strezhevoy. While in this city, I stayed at the Kedr Hotel. It was customary after dinner with comrades, as they say, to give circles around the hotel - a good exercise in the fresh air before going to bed.

The track called everyone

- Siberia is a ski region. What does this mean for you, Siberian?

- Oh, this is a special conversation. If I was in Tomsk on weekends, I would definitely spend half a day skiing. Around Tomsk there are wonderful places for recreation in winter and summer. We went skiing even when the temperature dropped below twenty degrees. In this case, in a cedar or pine forest, there is absolute silence, the trees do not move, dry air, dry snow, and even a sunny day - you can breathe easily, you can hardly feel the frost. Enough impressions for the whole week. In the Moscow region, this turned out to be more difficult: humidity, most often wet snow that sticks to skis, often rain or sleet obscures the eyes - this is not skiing ...

Even now, my heart is warm from the fact that, as they wrote in the central newspapers, in fact the entire region was on skis, especially workers' and student dormitories, schools. Ski bases, evening illuminated slopes, tea houses on the ski track were built everywhere. Skis were in short supply. Then we opened our own ski production at the Togur timber processing plant, since there is enough birch in the region. In addition, skis were imported from Karelia, Kirov region. On skis in the forest, I met both children and pensioners.

Tomsk in those years more than once became the winner of the All-Union competition of cities "The Ski Track Calls". We saw and understood that mass skiing has become a serious social phenomenon, a means of promoting health, preventing diseases, instilling culture, healthy habits. Once a professor at the medical institute Alexander Lirman came to the regional committee - a cardiologist considered it necessary to express his opinion about the hobbies of Tomsk residents for skiing. We gathered the staff of the apparatus to listen to a specialist. Alexander Vasilievich said that all his life he dreamed that in winter people, moreover, of all ages, would stand on skis, since this is the most effective remedy health promotion. No pills or injections! The thing is, he explained, that in nature in an emotional atmosphere, in fresh clean air, the whole body works under load - legs, arms, torso, head. The maximum effect, of course, is possible with regular classes. But infrequent ski trips do their good deed.

In the summer I usually play table tennis. After that, wife Zinaida Ivanovna treated the guys and me to tea, pies with dried apricots or prunes. Morning exercises have been mandatory for me all my life, not only at home, but also on business trips - in cities and villages, in any conditions.

The Olympians were among us

- But here I would like to move from personal feelings and impressions from physical education to the state problem, moreover, in my opinion, a major one. I remember when we promoted mass skiing, after a few years decent sports results began to appear, individually strong skiers emerged - different levels Champions. I will give just one example, of course, a very significant one. Famous Russian skier Lyubov Egorova was born and raised in Seversk. From childhood she was skiing, while studying at school, she showed good sports results, she entered the sports department of the Tomsk Pedagogical Institute. After that, with the participation of experienced Leningrad coaches, Lyuba achieved a phenomenal result: she won six gold medals at two Winter Olympics! She, as an athlete, for the first time in our country was awarded the title of "Hero of Russia". Also, the Olympic champion Natalya Baranova, who grew up in the northern village of Krivosheine, Tomsk Region, came out of the element of mass skiing.

I love sports, especially its game types - football, hockey, I follow them as a fan. I see an influx of foreign coaches, athletes in Russian teams. What colossal funds are pumped into the pockets of foreigners from the budget of the country, republics, regions! At the same time, what a weak material base remains in children's and youth sports schools, the low salary of children's coaches. Talks on this topic have been going on for years, but nothing has changed. Without mass participation, without a serious approach to children's and youth sports, there will be no high results in adult teams. Where can they come from? I am anxiously looking into 2018, when Russia will host the World Cup. Why are we going to him? Will the tragedy of Brazil, which failed at its own World Cup, be repeated? At the same time, a brilliant example was set by Germany, which in last years shook up the entire football economy, focused on youth sports, the education of its personnel, the material base of football and became a champion.

What if your name is pensioner?

- Yegor Kuzmich, we know you as an energetic, active person, who was responsible in the country's leadership for extensive areas of work. And suddenly everything stopped, you are a pensioner. How is your mood now, how do you build a life in free time?

- The question is not easy. The position of a pensioner, especially one who has retired from an active position, is a special condition. There is no need to lie here. Stopping is not so easy, and it is not necessary to stop. People with a strong will find what to do with the freed time, how to fill the day. The weak-willed begin to mope, swim on the waves of life - you know how it ends ... Personally, I had no problems with this. I am such a pensioner that, believe me, sometimes there is no free minute during the day: social, party work, speeches through the party organization, I was a deputy, wrote a lot, published articles in various newspapers, I receive a lot of letters, calls ... I note that there are many enterprises , organizations where those who retired from them are welcome people. At the same time, there are institutions where a person who has left them cannot come, since there is no pass. That's because what a paradox, people, of course, offended.

I don't have to be offended in this regard. Excellent relations with the leaders of the Tomsk and Novosibirsk regions, where I once worked. The current governor of Tomsk Sergey Zhvachkin, when he comes to Moscow, visits me, talks about the affairs and plans of the region, and I advise something from my experience, in a word, full-fledged business communication, which I really appreciate. I keep in touch with the mayor of Novosibirsk, Alexander Lokt, a very influential representative of the Russian Communist Party, a respected leader of the largest city in the country.

Shine and poverty of the old

- Leaving enterprises, organizations, institutions for a well-deserved rest, millions of people take away years of experience, professional skills, knowledge of specific technologies, effective methods of work. There are many true craftsmen and talents among them. This invaluable storehouse of folk skills is by and large not in demand, and if it is used, it is only occasionally. I have thought about this more than once: what a reserve is left overboard! More and more I come to the conclusion that the country needs to form an opinion about pensioners (especially about those who are younger, who are healthy enough to act) as a social institution of advisers, consultants, and assistant managers. The urgency of this problem has increased in recent decades, when there are many leaders without specialized education, special knowledge, educated, but young people do not have experience in communicating with people. These shots deserve a shoulder.

I welcomed the discussion of this issue in the press. At the end of last year, Izvestia published an article “In the regions, it is proposed to create labor exchanges for pensioners.” The newspaper even stressed that many pensioners "in their activity and professionalism will easily compete with the young." One could add - not only young, but also ubiquitous managers who manage today in one area, tomorrow - in another, the day after tomorrow - in a third. It became clear that this is most often superficiality.

At the same time, I think that pensioners should be active, find their place in social work, in useful deeds.

The average size of pensions, for example, in the Omsk region is 10?285 rubles, in the Voronezh region - 10?037 rubles. This is very little... It is difficult to live on such pensions. The older generation, which makes up the bulk of pensioners, deserves a better lot, more attention from the state, to which they have given their working lives. And the amount of pensions should be appropriate.

Think about it and understand: Russia is the richest country in terms of natural resources, it is not by chance that the West raised the issue that the mineral resources of Siberia should be an international property, and not just be in the hands of Russians. Indeed, the wealth is colossal, and the working people live in general in poverty. We must somehow cut this protracted knot! Let's hope that the next generation will do it.

And the Fatherland was in danger

- Do you communicate with Gorbachev?

- Not. I stopped communicating with Gorbachev back in 1990, when I was no longer a member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU and did not participate in the consideration of issues of the party and the state. On his conscience are two of my letters - two appeals to him and to the leadership of the party. I wrote that “the Party, the Fatherland are in danger, I would say, in extreme danger. The possible disintegration of our Federation would be a shock on a world scale, an irreparable blow to socialism. In my letters, I demanded the convening of an extraordinary plenum of the Central Committee, at which measures were to be determined to strengthen the unity and integrity of the Soviet state. There was no plenum. Gorbachev was afraid to gather members of the Central Committee. And at the XXVIII Party Congress in the same year, the composition of the Politburo was almost completely renewed, and it lost its influence in society and the state. It is now clear that Gorbachev had other plans. Since then, I repeat, there was no communication with him, there is not and cannot be.

- Did you meet with Yeltsin?

- Not. I knew that Boris Yeltsin had great energy. But, having looked closely at his work and actions in Moscow, I realized that this was not the energy of creation, but of destruction, and became his open, irreconcilable opponent. The consequences of this man's work for our people turned out to be heavy, tragic. By the way, I still cannot explain his act towards me when Yeltsin instructed Borodin, manager of affairs, to speak with me so that I would write an application for granting me a personal pension. I refused to write a petition addressed to Yeltsin.

When the brakes don't work

- Yegor Kuzmich, now you are retired, of course, there is time for reflection, reflection on the past, present and, of course, the future of the country. What worries you, worries?

- The social stratification that has occurred in our country and continues is haunting. The gap between the incomes of a handful of rich, super-rich people and the mass of jobless, impoverished people is simply monstrous. There is no need to name the numbers - they are known. This is a dangerous thing, a path to a social explosion. For how many years the question has been raised that there cannot be the same level of income taxes (13%) for everyone - both for the poor and for the rich, but the government does not seem to notice this, nothing changes. Newspapers report on the multimillion-dollar incomes of oligarchs, other leaders, including heads of state enterprises, who are in government positions, their wives who are successful in business, this outrages people. Sometimes you think: why do they need so much money, because, taking into account bank interest, the amounts increase, it is impossible to spend this money in a lifetime. Broken brakes - you can’t say otherwise.

Do not count it as immodest, but I will quote an article from an American newspaper, which in 1983, when I finished my work in the Tomsk region and was recalled to the Central Committee, wrote: “Yegor Ligachev appeared in the Central Committee of the CPSU - an ascetic, he came to Moscow from Siberia with one suitcase." Yes, it was. It was a characteristic feature of that time. Now the time is different. Alas!

The feast does not give friends

- Tell us about your family, with whom do you live now? For any person, the family means a lot, and even more so at your age.

- I have a wonderful family. To my deepest regret, my unforgettable wife, faithful friend Zinaida Ivanovna, a man of difficult fate, passed away. Her father, Ivan Zinovievich, a general who served in the Siberian military district, was repressed, shot in 1937 on a false denunciation. Subsequently, he was fully acquitted and rehabilitated. Such is the story. Zinaida Ivanovna was a communist, taught English language At the institute. I have a wonderful son Alexander, a communist, doctor of physical and mathematical sciences, professor. His wife, Elena, is an assistant professor and lecturer at the university. We all live together. I have a grandson Alexei, his wife Olga, great-grandson Egor. As they say, to live life is not to cross a field. It so happened that my son and his wife underwent heavy operations after me.

I made friends, faithful comrades, not during feasts, but in the course of work - in Novosibirsk, Tomsk, and Moscow.

- Thank you, Yegor Kuzmich, for an interesting conversation, especially since at the very beginning of the conversation we agreed to adhere to the unusual for you condition "Ligachev is out of politics." True, in some places in your reasoning politics broke through ...

- These are fragments of big politics. No more.

LIGACHEV Egor Kuzmich

(29.11.1920). Member of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee from 05/23/1985 to 07/13/1990 Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee from 12/26/1983 to 07/14/1990 Member of the CPSU Central Committee in 1976 - 1990 Candidate member of the Central Committee of the CPSU in 1966 - 1976. Member of the CPSU since 1944

Born in the village of Dubinkino, Chulymsky district Novosibirsk region in a peasant family. Russian. He loved being called Yuri. I did not like the name Yegor. Father in 1937 was expelled from the party, then was reinstated. The wife's father I. Zinoviev, chief of staff of the Siberian military district, was arrested in 1936, convicted of espionage in 1937 and shot. In 1943 he graduated from the Moscow Aviation Institute named after Sergo Ordzhonikidze and in 1951 from the Higher Party School under the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks. After graduating from the institute, he worked in engineering positions at the Chkalov aircraft plant in Novosibirsk. In 1944 - 1949. in Komsomol work: secretary of the district committee, secretary, first secretary of the Novosibirsk regional committee of the Komsomol. Removed from office after a report to the bureau of the Central Committee of the Komsomol under the chairmanship of the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Komsomol N. A. Mikhailov for formalism and paperwork, artificial isolation of the results of the work of Komsomol members from overall indicators team. For seven months he was out of work until he was offered the post of lecturer of the Novosibirsk city committee of the CPSU. Then he was the head of the department of the city party committee, deputy chairman of the Novosibirsk regional executive committee for culture, first secretary of the district committee of the party, head of the department, secretary of the Novosibirsk regional committee of the CPSU for ideology. In 1959, at a meeting of creative workers in Novosibirsk, he called S. V. Mikhalkov’s comedy “A Monument to Myself” a play “spiteful, blackening our life” and approved the decision of the team of the regional drama theater, which allegedly “himself” removed the play from the repertoire as vicious and harmful. E. K. Ligachev's assessment was published in two Novosibirsk newspapers, Sovetskaya Sibir and Evening Novosibirsk. However, the comedy received a positive assessment from the Pravda newspaper: “The new comedy reveals well what is the essence of philistinism in modern conditions . She denounces that tradesman who settled down, took root in our today's hostel and who, more than ever, is intolerant in the age of our heroic deeds ”(Pravd., 03/22/1959). S. V. Mikhalkov addressed a letter to E. A. Furtseva. On her behalf, the Department of Science, Schools and Culture of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR gave the Novosibirsk ideologist "an appropriate explanation" (TsKhSD. F. 5. Op. 37. D. 83. L. 1 - 3). In 1961 - 1965 in the apparatus of the Central Committee of the CPSU: head of the sector, deputy head of the Propaganda and Agitation Department, deputy head of the Department of Organizational and Party Work of the Bureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR. From 1965 to 1983 he was the first secretary of the Tomsk regional committee of the CPSU. According to him, after the dismissal of N. S. Khrushchev, he wrote a statement to L. I. Brezhnev with a request to be sent to work in Siberia. L. I. Brezhnev proposed the Tomsk region. I did not feel great joy: the area is neglected, far from the main roads. At the end of the 70s. at the suggestion of M. A. Suslov and K. V. Rusakov, he was supposed to go as an ambassador to Hungary. After a conversation with them, he wrote a letter to L. I. Brezhnev, in which he refused the diplomatic career. After 17 years of work in Siberia, in April 1983, under Yu. V. Andropov, he was transferred on the recommendation of M. S. Gorbachev to the head of the Department of Organizational and Party Work of the Central Committee of the CPSU. He replaced I. V. Kapitonov in this post, who was transferred in the absence of the second secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU K. U. Chernenko to oversee the production and sale of consumer goods. The appointment was unexpected: having stepped over the retirement age, he did not think about a new round of his party career. During a trip to Siberia and the Far East in the second half of the 70s. L. I. Brezhnev did not even get off the train to meet with the first secretary of Tomsk who was waiting for him at the station. According to the plan of M. S. Gorbachev, approved by Yu. V. Andropov, the new chief personnel officer of the party, offended by the 17-year-old vegetative life in Siberia, who was not allowed to the podium of the Plenums of the Central Committee of the CPSU, was entrusted with the task of replacing party and state cadres, appointed under L. I. Brezhnev. He showed great zeal in this task, announcing to former colleagues that they would have to resign. During 1983 - 1984. replaced about 70% of the first secretaries of the regional and regional committees of the CPSU with his people, ready to fulfill any of his instructions, to ensure an arithmetic majority in voting at the Plenums of the Central Committee on any issue. The initiator of the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee, according to which only people who were previously in leading party work could hold a position in the apparatus of the Central Committee of the CPSU. Since December 1983, Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, supervised the issues of organizational and party work. On March 11, 1985, at a meeting of the Politburo, which discussed the issue of electing the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, he supported the candidacy of M. S. Gorbachev, who, in his opinion, had all the features of a major political figure: “Moreover, he still has a lot of intellectual and physical strength . It is important to note that M. S. Gorbachev is characterized by great passion in his work, the desire to search in small and large cases, the ability to organize business ... Many secretaries of regional and regional party committees told me about this today. The nomination of M. S. Gorbachev will cause a sense of pride in our people, will raise the authority of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU ”(TsKhSD. F. 89. Collection of declassified documents). Since July 1985, the second secretary of the Central Committee, led the work of the Secretariat. In 1986, he crossed himself out of the list of Tomsk residents nominated for the USSR State Prize for participating in the creation of a large automated production at one of the defense plants in Tomsk. At the same time, he made serious mistakes in the selection and placement of personnel. He insisted, despite the objections, in particular, from V. I. Dolgikh, on the transfer to the Central Committee of the CPSU of the first secretary of the Sverdlovsk regional committee of the CPSU, B. N. Yeltsin. Following V. I. Dolgikh, he visited Sverdlovsk, personally called E. I. Chazov: “Mikhail Sergeevich wants to attract new cadres, smart talented organizers, people with new views to work in the Central Committee. I had just returned from Sverdlovsk, got to know Yeltsin and his work better, and recommended that Mikhail Sergeevich transfer him to Moscow, to the Central Committee. We need to change cadres, and we need people like Yeltsin. Naturally, many will not like his move to Moscow, and now rumors about his health are already beginning to be exaggerated, that he is a very sick person and it is hardly advisable to take him to work in the Central Committee. So they may come to you with questions about Yeltsin's health. Mikhail Sergeevich and I would ask you to take this into account ”(Chazov E.I. Rok. M., 2000. S. 86 - 87). The initiator of the transfer of V. A. Korotich from Kiev to the post of editor-in-chief of the Ogonyok magazine, which became the mouthpiece of anti-communist forces. On 05/30/1987, at an extraordinary meeting of the Politburo, which discussed the situation with the landing near Red Square of 19-year-old pilot from Germany Matthias Rust, by prior agreement with M. S. Gorbachev, he called for a decisive renewal of the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and strengthening party control over the army. As a result, Minister S. L. Sokolov, who did not make concessions to the United States on disarmament issues, was replaced by the pliable and obedient D. T. Yazov, who had never dealt with these issues before. He had a reputation as the leader of the conservative wing in the party. He was accused of initiating a letter published on March 13, 1988 in the newspaper "Soviet Russia" by the Leningrad teacher N. A. Andreeva "I can not compromise my principles", called in the decision of the Politburo "a manifesto of anti-perestroika forces." The author of the aphorism "Boris, you're wrong!" addressed to B. N. Yeltsin at the XIX All-Union Party Conference (1988). Another aphorism was born about him: “You won’t cheat us, you won’t cheat us.” At the September (1988) Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU, he was removed from the ideological issues transferred to V. A. Medvedev, and approved by the chairman of the Commission of the Central Committee of the CPSU on agricultural policy. In fact, he was deprived of power, since the role of the curator of the agrarian sector is incommensurable with the leadership of the ideological sphere. He no longer chaired meetings of the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the CPSU. On January 10, 1989, at the Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU, which elected one hundred candidates for people's deputies of the USSR from the CPSU ("Red Hundred"), received 76 votes against and took the last, hundredth place in the list. On May 12, 1989, investigator N.V. Ivanov, who spoke on Leningrad television and worked in tandem with T.Kh. Gdlyan, was accused of involvement in the "Uzbek case", but this statement was not confirmed by the USSR Prosecutor's Office. At a meeting of the Politburo on June 28, 1990 in Novo-Ogarevo, when discussing the issues of the XXVIII Congress of the CPSU, M. S. Gorbachev called him along with N. I. Ryzhkov, V. V. Bakatin, I. T. Frolov, A. I. Lukyanov , A. N. Yakovlev as a candidate for the post of Deputy General Secretary (Chairman) of the party. Cheerfully responded: "I'm ready to work with M. S. Gorbachev, if they have confidence." At the last XXVIII Congress of the CPSU (July 1990) he was nominated for the post of Deputy General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, but lost to V. A. Ivashko, receiving only 776 votes in favor and 3642 against. Deputy of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of the 7th - 11th convocations. People's Deputy of the USSR in 1989 - 1991 Since 1990 he has been a personal pensioner of federal significance. After the collapse of the USSR, he received 560 rubles. 05 - 06.10.1992 he testified in the "case of the CPSU" at the trial in the Constitutional Court of Russia. Legally, he was not a representative of the CPSU in court; by his decision, he was appointed as a witness. During interrogations, he behaved confidently, assertively. He confirmed that the 6th article of the Constitution was canceled at the suggestion of the Central Committee: “And I voted for it consciously, believing that the CPSU would rise to the occasion in the new conditions” (Materials of the case on checking the constitutionality of the decrees of the President of the Russian Federation concerning the activities of the CPSU and the CP RSFSR, as well as on the verification of the constitutionality of the CPSU and the Communist Party of the RSFSR. T. 4., M., 1997. P. 19). He admitted his guilt in the election of M. S. Gorbachev as General Secretary: “I actively and actively contributed ... to the promotion of Mikhail Sergeyevich ... He knows this well. This is perhaps my biggest personnel mistake" (Ibid. S. 55). While working in the leadership of the CPSU, he lived at the dacha of I.V. Stalin. After his retirement, he rode a trolley bus and the subway. Tomsk Regional Duma made a decision on additional payment to the pension of 2 thousand rubles. from the local budget "for special services to the region." After leaving the Politburo, I saw M. S. Gorbachev only twice: at conferences in St. Petersburg and Genoa dedicated to the origins of perestroika. In 1993, at the funeral of G. I. Voronov, he did not respond to the handshake of M. S. Gorbachev. When Raisa Maksimovna was being treated in Germany (1999), he sent a telegram to the clinic wishing her a speedy recovery. He believes that M. S. Gorbachev at the beginning of his political career was one of the most consistent communists and anti-Americanists, and then lost ground. After the collapse of the USSR, he was deputy chairman of the Union of Communist Parties - the CPSU, one of the co-chairs of the Committee of the Peoples of the USSR. Since December 1999 Deputy of the State Duma Russian Federation third convocation (KPRF faction), deputy chairman of the State Duma Committee on Veterans Affairs. As the oldest deputy in terms of age, he opened the first meeting of the lower house. By the decision of the 32nd Extraordinary Congress of the UPC-CPSU (July 2001), he was relieved of the post of Deputy Chairman of the Council of the UPC-CPSU for flagrant violations of the Charter of the UPC-CPSU.

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December 11th, 2010

Yegor Ligachev: “We shot the Deputy Minister for a bribe of 1.5 thousand rubles!”

I meet the anniversary with satisfaction, - Comrade Ligachev told the journalist straight away. - Life was not in vain. I dedicated it to serving the Soviet people, saving them, multiplying them. I ask you to especially note that there were many difficult days in my life, but not a single one was a burden!

I started asking questions to the hero of the day, but he asked not to interrupt

his opening remarks. Turned into a two-hour report on the grandiose projects in which he was lucky enough to participate. Here are the short abstracts. A guy from a remote Siberian village of Dubinkino entered the Moscow Aviation Institute without any connections. Free received higher education. Returned to Novosibirsk. At the beginning of the war, their factory produced 1 - 2 combat aircraft per day. At the end of the war - 18. This is how the victory over fascism was forged. Then - a national epic with the development of virgin lands in order to ensure the country's food security. Then Ligachev built the famous Novosibirsk Akademgorodok.

The hero of the day made the main emphasis in his report to me on the Tomsk period, which exactly coincided with the 18 years of Brezhnev's "stagnation". When Khrushchev was overthrown, Yegor Kuzmich was already working in the Central Committee of the CPSU. And although he was not on the team of Nikita Sergeyevich, he wrote a letter to the new General Secretary with a request to send him to live work in any region of the Union. Dropped Tomsk. From there Kuzmich would be taken back to Moscow by Andropov. Although there were good options under Brezhnev. Ambassador to France, Cuba. He refused. When the Politburo decided to send Ligachev to Hungary, which, it would seem, was not subject to appeal, he again wrote to Brezhnev - leave him in Siberia! What caused the displeasure of Suslov and the joy of Gromyko. Gromyko believed that the ambassador was a job for diplomats, and not a sinecure for party apparatchiks. Leonid Ilyich left Yegor Kuzmich in Tomsk. To build the West Siberian oil and gas complex.

Ligachev told for a long time how they were mastering deposits in the taiga and swamps, pulling oil pipelines, supplying the country with “black gold”. The whole pathos of the report - there was no stagnation at all. Wow, how many things have heaped up! I nodded in agreement, and thought to myself: people worked hard, and the result? "Tomskneft" laterwent to Khodorkovsky.

While categorically rejecting the very word "stagnation", the builder of socialism also acknowledged the problems. “Creating a new civilization, socialist, without making mistakes is an illusion. We seriously began to lag behind the West in scientific and technological progress. Decreased productivity. We were criticized that the secretaries of the regional committees were imprisoned for 15 years. Some governors have now been sitting in the regions for 20 years. History repeats itself. At the same time, such negative phenomena as bribery began to come to light. I had a share to report on the so-called corrupt officials at the Plenum of the Central Committee. It was a big deal. Serious measures had to be taken up to the release of the first secretaries of regional committees and even one head of the republic. And the court sentenced the deputy minister of the fishing industry to death!

And a big bribe?

One and a half thousand rubles. That's the era I worked in. Now ask questions."

Brezhnev's cigarette case with a secret

The country recognized you during perestroika as the main fighter against drunkenness. So you still don't drink?

There are rumors that I am from Kerzhaks, Old Believers, and therefore I do not take wine, tobacco. Nothing like this. Father was a communist, mother - Orthodox. I am still categorically against drunkenness. Kohl was already among the organizers of the anti-alcohol campaign, must follow the principle.

They say that even before perestroika, in the Brezhnev drinking years, the first secretary of the Tomsk regional party committee not only did not drink himself, but also did not pour for distinguished guests from Moscow. Was there such a sin?

The visits of ministers were very important for me. I studied with them. At the same time, I solved issues (laughs), I got something for the region. But never had a drink with them. Everyone knew this, no complaints were made. They left for Moscow with a bright head.

So no one was treated to anyone?

When Kosygin arrived for the first time, he put the bottle on the table. He looked at her: "Come on, Yegor Kuzmich, let's eat your cucumbers." I cut the cucumber, salted it, rubbed it. He didn't respect alcohol. Kosygin was the first to start the fight against smoking in the USSR. But then he turned, because Leonid Ilyich smoked terribly.

I visited Brezhnev dozens of times. At one meeting, he complained. “Listen, Egor, what they are doing to me, they are just mocking me! I want to smoke - do not give. General Secretary! You say, why is the cigarette case on the table? Try to open it!" - "Leonid Ilyich, I'm not a smoker, I won't open it." “Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t. It opens only once every 40 - 50 minutes. How far technology has come! And I want to smoke. And you know what I do? Brezhnev pressed the call button. The attendant entered. "Give me a cigarette!" - “You are not allowed, Leonid Ilyich, the doctors forbade it!” - "Then good bye. I will have another attendant." Either he said it in jest, or he was serious. The assistant brought

Brezhnev left behind only a collection of expensive guns! Chebrikov and I were instructed to inspect his property. He was an avid hunter, so statesmen gave guns. Leonid Ilyich had nothing more significant. Like Stalin. It so happened that three months after Stalin's funeral I visited Kuntsevo. No one has been building houses like this for a long time! Shield house one-story. Worn boots, an overcoat and the uniform of the Generalissimo, which he did not wear. He lived, created, led a vast country, made many mistakes and crimes, of course. And left no legacy. Son Vasily finished know how. Got drunk. Svetlana traveled the world. She suddenly returned to the USSR. And one day she asked for an appointment. The Politburo instructed Ligachev to receive it. I met Stalin's daughter very delicately. "I want to leave. To India, to her husband. This was her fourth or fifth husband. "You are welcome! Anytime!" Alliluyeva did not expect such a turn, apparently, she was counting on a scandal. And we agreed at the Politburo, even if he goes to the ends of the world.

Together they carried out perestroika: Ligachev, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze (from left to right). But the paths have diverged a long time ago.

Boris, you are wrong!

Yegor Kuzmich, did you drag Yeltsin to Moscow?

Here is how it was. December 1982 Calling from the Andropov hospital. “Yegor Kuzmich, they offer to take Yeltsin to Moscow. Do you know him?" - "Yes I know". I was in charge of staffing. “Couldn’t you visit the Urals, look at it?” - "Of course, Yuri Vladimirovich, I can." 5 days spent in Sverdlovsk. We traveled with him from morning to evening to enterprises, teams, cities. And wherever they appear, there are questions: “Have you come to pick up Yeltsin? No way, we need him here!” All 5 days he was absolutely sober! He returned and reported to Yuri Vladimirovich. But soon Andropov died. And only two years later Yeltsin was taken to the Central Committee. Head of construction department. Although people usually came from the Urals immediately as secretaries of the Central Committee, they were introduced to the Politburo. My job. "Let's look again." I already knew the information.

What does he drink?

Abuses. He set to work. Conversations reached me - Yeltsin is raging. Why was he humiliated, not immediately made a secretary. Okay, I think it will boil over, calm down. When Gorbachev suggested appointing him secretary, I supported it. Soon we put Yeltsin in place of Grishin to lead Moscow. There he began to deal with worthy people. It became clear to me what kind of person. The famous 19th Party Conference has arrived. All members of the Politburo spoke. But only Ligachev spoke about Yeltsin.

The country then flew around your catchphrase "Boris, you're wrong!"

It had a fundamental continuation, which is not remembered: “Boris, you have energy, but your energy is not creative, but destructive!” Unfortunately, he took up the destruction very actively. But a fact is a fact, at some stage I actively supported him. Sincerely.

Did you overlook Yeltsin, comrade Ligachev?!

My mistake. But when he led an active struggle against him, he was almost in the singular. Gorbachev acted according to the well-known rule "Divide and rule!". On the one hand, Yeltsin and Yakovlev, and on the other, Ligachev. Those innovators, and I'm a conservative.

That's Union in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, they say they ruined it because they were drunk.

Undoubtedly. It was necessary to arrest them in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.

Why didn't you get arrested?

A year and a half before the defeat of the country, I was removed from the Politburo, the Supreme Council, and other authorities.

Have you seen Mikhail Sergeevich for a long time?

Last time in the mid 90s.

But at the beginning of perestroika, the two led the country.

We walked in a single column when we developed plans for the restructuring of the USSR and began to put them into practice. I thought the foundations of the system should be preserved. Gorbachev and his entourage later decided that Soviet system not reformed and it needs to be destroyed. This is where our fundamental differences lie.

China's experience has shown that it is possible to reform the system. It is already catching up with America itself.

I have a special relationship with China. In 1957 he spent three months there. Met with Mao Zedong, Liu Shaoqi, Zhou Enlai and other leaders.

Themselves, Yegor Kuzmich, who were they then?

Secretary of the Novosibirsk Regional Party Committee. Small post. But it happened, I had to go. Did a special job.

It's too early to say yet.

Well, Yegor Kuzmich, tell us! More than half a century has passed! You are the only living participant in those events.

It's not time yet. I have been there later. In Moscow, I regularly meet with Chinese comrades. Whole groups come.

They study the sad experience of the destruction of Soviet power. To prevent this from happening. I see that much is taken into account from our past.

In any case, corrupt officials are still being shot.

And the Communist Party is not destroyed.

Veteran and at 90 still in the saddle!

Comrade Ligachev, since you don’t want to give out the old Chinese secret, at least reveal who destroyed the USSR?

The prerequisites for the collapse were created by Gorbachev and his company. And Yeltsin and his team took up the direct destruction of the Union.

Consciously or by misunderstanding?

- It was a political rebirth. Many have become millionaires. Themselves or their relatives, which is one and the same. The second reason - national separatism. Unfortunately, in the end we stopped fighting him. And it all ended in destruction, poverty, and the death of millions.

And the pernicious influence of the West? The intrigues of cunning Freemasons, the intrigues of CIA agents?

I have no evidence that the West played a decisive role in the destruction of the country, as some claim. And I don't think so. The main reasons are internal. But not objective, but subjective, personal.

How did the wise Chekist Andropov fail to see Gorbachev and bring him closer? And he also sent you to Yeltsin.

I don’t really want to talk about the departed people, sorry. When we realized that things were coming to an end, the healthy forces were divided. And we had no experience of political struggle. All were tied to economic, economic life. Yes, there are my letters to the Politburo two and a half years before the collapse of the USSR. For them, they threw me out of the country's leadership. I wrote that if it goes on like this, the Soviet Union will disintegrate into dozens of independent states, this will cause enormous suffering, torment to the people. This will be a blow not only to Soviet Union but throughout the world civilization.

And where did the almighty KGB look, how did it allow the collapse of the country? Or, on the contrary, contributed?

The KGB is an auxiliary body. The leaders were the Politburo, the Secretariat, the Central Committee of the CPSU. Therefore, we must take responsibility.

I decided a long time ago not to sprinkle ashes on my head, but to do everything possible so that in the end people's power would return, the Union of equal sovereign republics, fraternal peoples would be recreated. I'm still on the line. Secretary of the Council of Communist Parties of 15 former Soviet republics. Member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, member of the Moscow City Party Committee.

What do you live on?

I receive a deputy pension, 20 thousand rubles. I have been giving royalties for books and articles in Russia to the CPRF fund for 20 years. I receive royalties for foreign publications myself. Very little income, but enough to live and work. The only property is this apartment. I do not regret that there are no foreign accounts, factories, oil rigs, estates. Although I could have, there were suggestions.

Unfortunately, his wife Zinaida Ivanovna passed away 13 years ago. In the 1930s, her father was shot with the rank of lieutenant general. But never in the family did they curse the Soviet government, the party, they considered the execution a mistake of specific people, but not of the system.

Have you thought about starting a new family?

No. After Zinaida, no relationship with anyone. I am a Monogamous. I live with my son. Alexander communist, doctor of sciences, professor. Snokha Candidate of Sciences. There are grandchildren and great-grandchildren. They called Yegor without asking Yegor Kuzmich.

And then the hero of the day showed that there is still gunpowder in the powder flasks. He pulled himself up on the Swedish wall, pedaled the exercise bike. Yes, so energetically that I shouted: “Enough! Enough!" He volunteered to escort me to the subway to Sparrow Hills. I was about to refuse, but Ligachev said that it was his norm - an hour walk in the mountains every evening. I wanted to drop in on Yegor Kuzmich's neighbor in the Tsekovsky house, Igor Krutoy, in former apartment Gorbachev. So that he would say a kind word about the hero of the day. Although Krutoy is a very rich man, Ligachev does not feel class hatred for him. A creative person, he earned everything with his work. Invites a neighbor to his concerts. But there was no Cool House. On the road.

In parting, I wished Ligachev long life and expressed the hope that by the centenary he would confess what he had done in China with Mao Zedong. He smiled slyly

29.11.2010

Egor Kuzmich Ligachev was born on November 29, 1920 in the village of Dubinkino, Chulymsky district, Novosibirsk region, into a peasant family. After graduating from high school, he entered the Moscow Aviation Institute named after S. Ordzhonikidze, from which he graduated in 1943 with a degree in aircraft engineering. He began his career at the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant named after Chkalov, where from 1943 to 1944. worked in engineering positions (engineer-technologist, head of the technical department group). Then he was nominated for Komsomol work.

From 1944 to 1949 Ligachev was the first secretary of the district committee, secretary, first secretary of the Novosibirsk regional committee of the Komsomol.

Since 1949, he has been on Soviet and party work in Novosibirsk: he was a lecturer in the Novosibirsk city committee, head of the department of the city committee, then the regional committee of the CPSU.

In 1951, he received a second higher education, graduating from the Higher Party School under the Central Committee of the CPSU.

In 1953-1955. Yegor Ligachev worked as the head of the department of culture; in 1955-1958 - Deputy Chairman of the Novosibirsk Regional Executive Committee.

In 1958 he was elected the first secretary of the Soviet district committee of the CPSU of the city of Novosibirsk, in 1959-1961. served as Secretary of the Novosibirsk Regional Committee of the CPSU.

In 1961, Ligachev was invited to Moscow, where from 1961 to 1965 he worked in the apparatus of the Central Committee of the CPSU as the head of a sector, deputy head of the propaganda and agitation department of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR, deputy head of the party organs of the Central Committee of the CPSU for industry of the RSFSR and Deputy Head of the Propaganda and Agitation Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR.

In 1965, he was sent to Tomsk, where on November 26, 1965 he was elected First Secretary of the Tomsk Regional Committee of the CPSU and worked in this position until 1983.

In April 1983, Ligachev was transferred to work in Moscow, where from 1983 to 1985. was the head of the department of organizational and party work of the Central Committee of the CPSU; then Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, and from April 1985 he became a member of the country's top political leadership - the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, of which he was a member until 1990.

Yegor Ligachev was one of those who started perestroika. He became the most active organizer of the anti-alcohol campaign, which began in May 1985.

He was elected a deputy of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of 7 - 11 convocations, as well as people's deputy USSR (1989 to 1992).

The politician ended his career in 1990. But even in retirement, Yegor Ligachev continues his political life.

December 19, 1999 he was elected as a deputy State Duma Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation of the third convocation from the Tomsk region.

On January 18, 2000, as the oldest deputy of the State Duma of the third convocation, he opened the first meeting of the Duma.

Yegor Ligachev continues to work actively in the party. He was deputy chairman of the Union of Communist Parties (UCP-CPSU) of the former Soviet republics, now - secretary of the council of the UCCP-CPSU, member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, the Moscow City Committee of the Communist Party.

Egor Ligachev was awarded two Orders of the Red Banner of Labor (1948, 1967), the Order of the Badge of Honor (1957), two Orders of Lenin (1970, 1980), the Order October revolution(1976) and many medals.

After the death of his wife Zinaida Ivanovna in June 1997, Yegor Kuzmich lives with his son and his wife. Son, Alexander Egorovich - Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, Professor. His wife, Elena Aleksandrovna, is a candidate of technical sciences, an associate professor. There is a grandson and great-grandson, whose name is Yegor.